AMERICAN TORNADO USADO PARA DESARROLLAR EL TORINO

[v8roadster]

Segun lo que lei, esos motores se fabricaron por continental, que no tenia nada que ver con kaiser, tenian un contrato
con el ejercito de estados unidos, termino el contrato,llevaron todas las maguinarias, todas las piesas, a cordoba, parte de un areglo que habian echo con el gobiero Argentino,segun el articulo, el motor era bueno, pero tenia un defecto, que no duraban,les dejo este folleto, sin offender,

[v8roadster]

el camion del ejercito de usa era kaiser 715, kaiser solo fabricaba jeep, y camiones militares, no producian ,ningun auto
para vender en estados unidos, los kaiser 715 tenian mala fama de motor,como mas de 20 anos atras, un amigo me
queria regalar unos de esos motores 6 cyl tornado completo estaba en la punta del taller , nunca lo lleve a casa.....

[bologna]

El Origen del motor fue en la Willys. Acá les dejo una nota que escribí para el club hace como 10 años atrás...

http://www.clubamigosdeltorino.com.ar/i ... genes.html

Maxi

Sos el libro gordo de Petete, hermano. Es increíble

jajajaj No es para tanto che, pasa que me gusta!

Gracias Maxi.

También el American estuvo equipado con un motor de jeep 4 cilindros con dos weber horizontales. Los datos de ese desarrollo los tiene Jorge Alejandro Ochoa. El motor, trucado por Berta, voló por los aires mientras "tiraban" contra un Tornado. El auto, fue mandado a cortar en 40 pedazos por James F. McCloud (y eso justificó además, que lo despidieran de IKA).

Pablo.

Recuerdo esa historia, Berta se la cuenta a Agustin durante la entrevista del Film "Torino" de Rolandelli y tambien nos la contó Lobbosco. Igualmente, tengo entendido que ese auto que McCloud mando a cortar y que le constó el despido a Berta era un 6 cilindros con los 3 weber. De ese auto e idea nacia la "W"...

Excelente material pela... Pregunta Boba... el 4 cilindro gastaria menos q el q tiene el torino?

Te autorespondiste Gustavo...

Maxi, ese american de la foto es uno gris que estaba a la venta hace unos años, creo en San Juan?

Por otro lado, que lindo diseño exterior el american, los cromados, molduras, etc, herrrrrmoso !!

No, tengo entendido que el que estaba a la venta, tiene toda la mecanica original americana. Igualmente no es para descartar que ese auto la haya traido la IKA tambien para analizar.
Este Rambler con el 4 cilindros fue uno de los tantos usados para el desarrollo del Torino. En otro auto se desarrollaron suspenciones y finalmente se le colocó el Tornado 6 cilindros. Cuentan que el auto no doblaba nada, porque el motor quedaba muy avanzado en el vano. Entonces sacaron tablero, cortaron torpedo y corrieron todo para atrás. El auto cambió dinamicamente un 100% y esa fue la primer base de nuestro auto en cuanto a suspenciones, motor y elementos. El Tornado usado era un "Jet" de Rambler, luego se desarrollaria el que finalmente equiparia al Torino con admision individual. Ese auto nunca apareció...
Estos dos Rambler los tiene el mismo dueño del Raton escandaloso y la rural Rambler de TC.

[bologna]

Va algo de data yankie publicada sobre este motor:

"The Strange Life of Jeep's OHC 230
by Jim Allen The trail of 4x4 history is littered with developments and ideas that were ahead of their times. One such creation was the Jeep 230ci OHC six. This engine came from the fertile mind of A.C. Sampietro, a transplanted Italian who came to Willys in 1952 and later became their Chief Engineer. "Sammy" Sampietro had extensive experience in designing high performance engines, having worked with the likes of the famous racer Donald Healey in Europe.
Sammy was a proponent of "power through breathing," and breathing well was one thing that the Willys L and F-head engines did not demonstrate. In the late '50s, he got his chance to design an engine that featured power through breathing. Kaiser/Jeep had embarked on a project to build an all-new Jeep by 1963, and this project needed an engine. The project would yield the legendary Wagoneer and Sampietro's OHC six was its power plant.
Though Jeep considered outsourced engines, they settled on a project to design the all new OHC six in-house. Design work on the new Jeep engine began in February of 1960 and the first prototype engines were run exactly one year later. They passed their 100 hour, full load, full-speed testing and went into production in April of 1962, just in time for the new Wagoneer. These engines were also fitted into the old design Jeep Station Wagons and pickups.
Dubbed the "Tornado," the new SOHC (Single Overhead Cam) 230 cubic inch engine shared the basic lower end design of the Kaiser L-head 226ci. The L-head had a good reputation in Jeeps having been installed in them for many years. However, a lot of extra effort went into refining its crankshaft for the 230 application. It was one of the first times Tufft riding (a surface hardening process) was used by a major engine production line to strengthen internal engine components.
The crossflow head had Siamesed intake ports with individual runners for the exhaust and a decent flowing exhaust manifold. The single overhead cam had only six lobes, each operating both the intake and exhaust followers on one cylinder. It breathed through either a one or two barrel carb and both high and low compression versions were produced. The engine's rated output exceeded all the similar displacement sixes in trucks at the time and Willys was widely touted for being way ahead of the technology curve. But the hoopla soon died.
From the beginning the Tornado had problems that eventually tarnished its reputation beyond repair. These were real problems, but diligent research shows that they have been magnified by time. The early engines suffered from oil leaks and oil consumption problems, all of which were cured in engines built after early '63.
The mechanical problems commonly mentioned (cam & bearing failures) were almost always the result of low oil levels from the leaks and oil burning. The fixes came too late. After several updates, the civvy 230 became a reliable engine. However, because of its tarnished reputation and the fact that it was relatively expensive to produce, it lead a short life. Kaiser Jeep dropped it in the early part of '65 for the less expensive outsourced AMC 232ci six. But this wasn't the end of the Tornado.
At the same time it was orphaned by Jeep, it was adopted by IKA (Industrias Kaiser Argentina), a subsidiary of Kaiser in Argentina. It debuted in the '66 IKA Torino, basically a Rambler American. This became an extremely popular sporty car in South America and the engine soon got some useful massaging in the form of individual intake runners, allowing it to produce 155hp and giving it the new name of "Tornado Interceptor." A hi-po version, with three side-draft 45 DCOE two-barrel Webers made 176 hp. The even hotter 380W variation made 220 hp. Speaking of racing, a 4-liter version of the engine was used in the Cooper T-81 Formula 1 car.
The torque, power, BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) and BMEP (Brake Mean Effective Pressure) graph for the Tornado. This is the full-boat 155 hp version as Sampietro envisioned it. It isn’t clear what the exact differences were between this and the final production engine.
In 1973, by then called the "Tornado Jet," the engine got its first major redesign, with the lower end being upgraded to seven main bearings from four and the head recieving more massaging. In this guise, the Tornado made up to 215 hp was used in the Torino until at least 1981.
The Tornado also had a life in the U.S. military, though this was after Jeep dropped it from the civvy market. A 130 hp version was used in the '66-69 M-715 1.25-ton military Gladiator trucks. Legend has it that these engines were built in Argentina but that story cannot be confirmed. An interesting side note: At the same time Sammy Sampietro was developing the OHC six, he designed an OHC four. With 154 cubic inches, it was simply a Tornado with two less cylinders. Rated at 102hp and 152 lbs-ft., it was perfect for a Jeep CJ. Why this engine never made it into Jeeps we will never know, but a small number were produced.
The Tornado was a giant step forward for Jeep followed by several steps back. It does hold the record of being one of the earliest American built OHC productions engines, just behind the Crosley and the Duesenburg. "

Observen que hacen mencion de IKA, nuestros desarrollos (Los yankies no pudieron hacerlo funcionar, nosotros si y como!!), tambien hablan del Cooper-Tornado y dan un dato interesante sobre el BSFC del Tornado, acompañado por un grafico que acá adjunto.



Observen que el BSFC en el banco queda por abajo de 0,5, un valor realmente excelente y digno de admiración. A mi me sorprendió!

[bologna]

Ah... Unos datitos mas antes que me olvide. Berta se enteró de la rural rambler de TC y dijo que era verdad, que el la construyo y que tenia unos km/h plus sobre la Liebre II. Me dijeron que en corsas hay una nota al respecto y que en una entrevista que le hacen a Berta en los 70, sale una foto donde atrás se ve la rural...

Les dejo una foto del interior, tambien sacada por Gustavo HKS:



Otro: EL Rambler sobre el que se diseñaron suspenciones era cupe, en cambio el que tiene el motor 4 cilindros Tornado 152 era 4 puertas. No seria de extrañar que ese Tornado 152 fuera pensado para equipar a la version 4 puertas, para la que finalmente se desarrollo el Tornado 6 cilindros 181...

[jgcastells]

Excelentes tus aportes Maxi, gracias!

[HERNANBULL]

hks, no era el ex dueño de tu liebre, ex lang, ex marchado, ex pourciel, ex berta???
q quilombazo

[Toro-Pampa]

Que interesante! No se si se acuerdan que el dueno de accespartes "German" habia comprado uno de los prototipos de rambler ?

[bologna]

hks, no era el ex dueño de tu liebre, ex lang, ex marchado, ex pourciel, ex berta???
q quilombazo

Exacto, el mismisimo Gustavo.

[torero7125]

Que interesante! No se si se acuerdan que el dueno de accespartes "German" habia comprado uno de los prototipos de rambler ?

si,uno rojo con motor tornado

[bologna]

Que interesante! No se si se acuerdan que el dueno de accespartes "German" habia comprado uno de los prototipos de rambler ?

si,uno rojo con motor tornado

Y donde esta ese auto ahora?

[HDLGC]

Yo recuerdo las palabras del Ingeniero Alberto CORDERO, sobre el "padre" del Tornado americano, el Ingeniero italiano SAMPIETRO. Fue algo así como "...y ese tano de la ..., un soberano pedazo de ...", etc.

[bologna]

Yo recuerdo las palabras del Ingeniero Alberto CORDERO, sobre el "padre" del Tornado americano, el Ingeniero italiano SAMPIETRO. Fue algo así como "...y ese tano de la ..., un soberano pedazo de ...", etc.

jajajaj... Se ve que no se llevaban muy bien!

[torero7125]

Que interesante! No se si se acuerdan que el dueno de accespartes "German" habia comprado uno de los prototipos de rambler ?

si,uno rojo con motor tornado

Y donde esta ese auto ahora?

en cordoba.en su momento habia unas fotos publicadas en facebook de ese coche

[v8roadster]

Tendre que buscar el articulo , explica como mandaron la fabrica continental a Cordoba Argentina,tambien explica
que invertieron mas de 200 milliones de dollares,segun el articulo tuvieron un incentivo para tratar de crear Cordova
en el centro de automotriz de sur America, tendre que buscar el libro fue escrito por precidente de IKA . ...

kaiser solo fabricaba jeep , no autos, motores transmissiones venian de otros lados, despues si cuando se juntaron con amercan motors, razon jeeps con motores de chevrolet , buick , ford


The Tornado didn't die when it was dropped from the lineup in 1965. Its design and tooling was transferred to Industries Kaiser Argentina (or IKA), which also had ties with AMC and Renault. The engine was used in the Torino, a Rambler American clone. With only a few upgrades, the engine was sold at a standard 155-hp level, and an Interceptor version with three side-draft DCOE Weber two-barrels made 176 hp. An economy 181-cubic-inch version (3.34-inch bore and 3.44-inch stroke) was built as well. In 1973, the lower end was upgraded to seven-main configuration, and by the time the engine was discontinued in 1982, there were 215-hp versions floating around. It was used extensively in racing, and it even garnered a few international victories.


bueno aveses la historia es interesante,